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Wednesday, August 18, 2010

SpinTunes #2: Election Week

Issue #1:
Do you want the popular vote to be a 6th judge in SpinTunes #2?
Yes or No

Issue #2:
Should we continue to reset the scores each round or move to a cumulative scoring system?
Fresh Start or Cumulative

Issue #3:
Who should make the challenges?
Spin or Spin & The Judges

Issue #4:
Should judges be allowed to return for consecutive contests in a row?
Yes or No

Not Voting On:
Molly Lewis Rule - Now that I've seen how the current round 4 set up works, I've decided to go ahead and change the last round for SpinTunes 2. A number of people agreed that having 1 or 2 more people in the last round would be fine. There was another suggestion by Edric Haleen that I will consider for SpinTunes #3, but it had a few flaws (in my opinion) that I'd like to think over. One thing that people did seem to agree on is me changing the name of the current rule. It shall now be called the Maggi Logan rule. (PS: There will probably be 4 finalist in SpinTunes #2)

Schedule - Since I don't know what my schedule will be like in the future, I'll just do my best to take your suggestions into consideration when the time comes. Especially the part about giving people a weekend toward the end of the songwriting period.

E-Mail Reminders - Not going to happen. Most didn't think it was needed...I agree.

Widget - Most people don't care much about it, so I'm getting rid of the widget. In it's place there will be a larger link to the album when the songs are posted.

Shadow CD - Shadows will continue to be posted with whatever album they were wrote for. I've started tagging them with, "(Shadow)" on the albums & on the profile page though.

Judging Guidelines - This isn't going to be voted on, but there will be some guidelines for the judges in the future. There will probably be a meeting scheduled after each deadline, and judges (who are able to attend) will discuss with me what does & does not met the requirements. After the meeting all judges will rank the songs that do not meet the requirements at the bottom. Details about farther guidelines & the judges meetings will come later.

How To Vote:
Just use the comments section below & include your name. I don't really want to start a poll on the side and have random people voting...I'm more concerned with what the people involved in the contest think. Make it short & sweet like the example below:

"Issue #1: No
Issue #2: Fresh Start
Issue #3: Spin & The Judges
Issue #4: No
(your name)"

I'll give you all about 1 week to vote. Then I'll start making up the official rules for SpinTunes #2. Voting ends...next Tuesday...11:59 PM EST.

PS: No need to make arguements for your votes or how people should vote here. We had a post for that already...just vote.


  1. Issue #1: No

    Issue #2: Cumulative - *(Dependant on MY idea of "winner of each round goes to final", not being taken up.)
    Issue #3: Spin & The Judges (But once they are decided upon that is IT-No debating after the fact)
    Issue #4: Yes

    And Judges should be allowed to shadow and have songs posted during rounds. Opposition to that seemed minimal, (and illogical).

  2. #1 No
    #2 Cumulative
    #3 Spin and the judges
    #4 yes


    Expanded version
    #1 No; use it only in case of a tie as before. Popular points are good ego boosters but a song should be judged as a song, not as a way to see who can self promote and pimp themselves.
    #2 Cumulative. Win 2, lose one- and you are out? bleh.
    #3 Gah, hard to say. Part of me says it is YOUR contest, the judges know this, so you should get to set the challenges. Part says that a ticked off judge due to not likeing that challenge sours things for all and sucks some of the fun out it the contest. Go with having the judges- ALL the judges- see and ok the challenges you want to use before they are announced. If they are not at the initial planning meeting, get their ok well in advance.
    #4 If they and you can play nicely together without causeing anyone to decide never to talk to each other again, and if there is no overwhelming protest from the people being judged, sure, keep them. Encourage them to shadow though because I am greedy and want to hear their music if they are normally competitors.

  3. Issue #1: No
    Issue #2: Fresh Start
    Issue #3: Spin & The Judges
    Issue #4: Yes

    (Edric Haleen)

    Expanded version
    #1 No; good heavens, no! Gah! Jeez!! NO!!!
    #2 Fresh start. (The person who would have benefited most from cumulative voting in SpinTunes #1 is staunchly opposed to the idea of cumulative voting for the good of the overall competition. What does that tell you?)
    #3 "Spin and the Judges" is the name of a Temptations-covering a cappella group at Thomas Cooley Law School in Lansing, MI.
    #4 If a judge wants to repeat, and is willing to put forth that effort again, I have no problem with it. If Travis has more judges than "slots," I'm sure Travis will choose appropriately from the pool of candidates...

    And judges should be allowed to shadow and have songs posted during rounds. Opposition to that seems criminal and tautological.


    (Vote NO on 1!)


  4. Issue #1: No
    Issue #2: Cumulative
    Issue #3: Spin & The Judges
    Issue #4: Yes

    Seems like everyone is agreeing so far. :p

  5. #1: No
    #2: Cumulative (reset for finals)
    #3: Spin & Judges
    #4: Yes

  6. Issue #1: Yes
    Issue #2: Fresh Start
    Issue #3: Spin & The Judges
    Issue #4: Yes

    Expanded Thoughts-
    Issue #1 Do you want the popular vote to be a 6th judge in SpinTunes #2?: Yes. We need to find some method of increasing interest, traffic and audience. Having a public vote is crass. And it forces us to pimp our songs and the contest to a pool of friends who grow weary of hearing about it. But the contest deserves more traffic than it's getting. I think the public vote generates some traffic. But, I'm open to other ideas.

    Issue #2 Should we continue to reset the scores each round or move to a cumulative scoring system?: Fresh Start. But if you are having four Spinners in the final round, you could make one of them the Cumulative Winner and the other three the winners of each round. If the Cumulative Winner is also the winner of one of the rounds or if someone has won multiple rounds, fill in the final round with top finishers from the third round.

    But, let's make this really complicated and maybe say that no person can move on to the Final Round without having submitted something (Shadow or Regular Entry) for all three preliminary rounds. (Can't win Round 1 and just not show up for Rounds 2 & 3.)

    Issue #3: Spin & The Judges. I think the Previous Winner could also be asked to suggest a challenge (unless they are competing again), even if they aren't judging! Give the winners some honor and recognition into the next SpinTunes.

    Also, by "Cumulative," I mean "Average Placement over the 3 Preliminary Rounds." Not TOTAL SCORE over the 3 Preliminary Rounds. Because more points are earned in Round 1, TOTAL SCORE would give too much weight to Round 1 results.

    Issue #4: Yes. I think there should be both continuity and some freshness in the judging each contest. A mix of experienced judges and freshmen.

    Molly Lewis Rule: I think you can have the Molly Lewis Rule EVERY ROUND, including Round 1! Limit the number of entries to 32, first come first served or by invite and then sign-up. But anyone can shadow. Shadow's are entered in the judging to fill out ANY round to the number eligible that round.

    So, if in Round 1 we have 32 sign up, 23 enter songs and we get 4 shadows, we end up with 27 songs in for judging.

    If you get more shadows than available slots: Shadows should go to the highest finisher in the previous round first (or previous competition for Round 1). And then in order of when they were received.

    Round 1: 32 Contestants
    Round 2: 16
    Round 3: 8
    Round 4: 4

    If in any round someone drops out or fails to get their entry in on time, their slot can be filled with a shadow entry, either from the pool or top finishers or from the line of first come first served.

    Judges should be allowed to shadow, but not have their shadows qualify for judging. I think those judges just need to be careful not to let the contestant hear anything about their shadow songs until after the submission deadline. You don't want to influence contestants.

    Also, we need a new name for the Molly Lewis Rule. The "Drop-out Default," or "No-Show Shadow Entry," anything else. I like Molly. And at this point, it sounds like we're picking on her.

    -Russ Rogers

  7. 1 - No
    2 - Cumulative
    3 - Spin and the Judges
    4 - Yes

    (Deni Travis)

  8. Issue #1: No
    (Just as Edric spoke against cumulative voting even though it would have helped him, I'm speaking against this even though it would have helped me!)

    Issue #2: Either, but...
    (I'm open to either, but if cumulative, ideally one set up somewhat along these lines -- http://potluck.com/2010/08/thoughts-on-songwriting-contests/#comment-72065 -- since it would address most or all of people's concerns about cumulative scoring.)

    Issue #3: No preference

    Issue #4: No preference

    Mark S. Meritt a.k.a. The Offhand Band

  9. Graham Porter (Emperor Gum)August 18, 2010 at 11:02 AM

    1. don't care
    3. SPIN + JUDGES
    4. YES

    I never understood why it was called the Molly Lewis rule. She had to beat Paul & Storm to win Song Fu 3, she is the only contestant to beat a master I believe.

  10. Issue #1: No
    Issue #2: Fresh Start
    Issue #3: Spin & The Judges
    Issue #4: Yes

    Kevin Savino-Riker

  11. 1) yes

    2) Fresh Start

    3) Spin and the Judges

    4) yes

  12. 1. YES, please
    2. Yes, yes, yes.
    3. Spin
    4. I don't know..... Maybe yes but what if they weren't very good at it?? On the other hand what if we had a stellar judge?? Hmmm

    I feel very strongly about 1 and 2.

    But I appreciate that others don't.


  13. Quick clarification re: issue #2. Either remains fine with me, but...

    For cumulative scoring, recommend scheme as noted above *and* that the scoring system be as mathematically solid as possible, which backward rankings aren't.

    For eliminations, recommend a preference voting system.


  14. oops!!!!

    And by "yes, yes, yes ..." for number two I meant

    yes, yes, yes to it being cumulative.
    Sorry. I have a very bad Headache.

  15. Concise:
    #1: No.
    #2: Cumulative, with a clean slate in the final round.
    #3: Spin and the Judges.
    #4: Yes.

    Spin, it's so cute that you encouraged people not to comment. I'm told that naivety is sexy... keep it up. :)

    Issue #1: There should always be an odd number of judges. No ties. Considering the popular vote as a 6th judge instead of the the 5th changes this from a "yes" to a "no" for me.

    Issue #2: As JoAnn says, "Win 2, lose one- and you are out? bleh." To which I would add, "That is MAJOR suckage. On a pole." To which I would also add, I'm voting cumulative here simply because you're not considering Edric's proposal, which is even better. But half a loaf is better than none, so I'm voting for the half a loaf you're offering.

    Issue #3: What Joe said.

    Issue #4: I know this isn't voted on, but I'd like to offer that judging guidelines should be decided for each challenge at the same time the challenges themselves are decided. Whether 'this' or 'that' song actually met a challenge is a separate issue best decided after the deadline.

    To Russ... Molly should be proud to have a rule named after her. She did so much to earn it, and I have heard it said that she might possibly have a sense of humor.

    To Emperor Gum... the Maggi Logan (nee Molly Lewis) rule has nothing to do with how she won. It has to do with the fact that after she did win she failed to return to meet the next winners (Berg and Jerry) in the final. This was the beginning of the end of Song Fu. Thanks, SweetAfton23, and bless your home-wrecking little heart... yep.

  16. Issue #1: No
    Issue #2: Fresh Start
    Issue #3: Spin & The Judges
    Issue #4: No


    First, I very much appreciate Travis and ALL of the judges giving their time and effort for this contest to happen.

    1) Kill the popular vote altogether, I say. It was so hated in Song Fu, why not try one SpinTunes without it.

    2) I like Edric's idea, minus the buffoonery about losing and regaining one's spot in the finals.

    3) I may be alone on this, but I think that the actual text of the challenge should be finalized in the judges' meeting. This would lessen the confusion among the judges, and perhaps even eliminate the need to edit each and every challenge after it's posted. Also, try to balance out the, “BWAHAHAHA! This will be SO HARD!” thinking with a little pausing to ask, “Will this challenge result in good songs?”

    4) Letting judges repeat unless it is necessary to keep the contest from being delayed is a HORRIBLE idea. Who decides which judge should be able to repeat? Is it fair to the ones who thought the repeating judges were less than stellar for this to happen? Wouldn't the contest benefit from reaching out to a variety of people, each with a different audience/ peer group to expose SpinTunes to? Travis, wouldn't you like the easy out during potentially awkward conversations of being able to just say, "Sorry, thems the rules....no repeat judges."

    --Bryce Jensen

  17. Issue #1: Yes
    Issue #2: Fresh Start
    Issue #3: Spin & the Judges (Does anybody related to this contest actually call you Spin or not know your name?)
    Issue #4: Absolutely
    Caroline Conner

  18. "Spin, it's so cute that you encouraged people not to comment. I'm told that naivety is sexy... keep it up. :)"

    I know, but I had to try. After reading various blogs, e-mails & comments about the topics I was hoping people had enough. :p

    " (Does anybody related to this contest actually call you Spin or not know your name?)"

    I think most have seen my real name, but I've went by "Spin" online for years & years so I'm used to that. No big deal if I'm called Travis, Spin or Spintown/SpinTunes.

    Bryce wins the award for best comment of the day by referring to something Edric said as "buffoonery". :p

    " Travis, wouldn't you like the easy out during potentially awkward conversations of being able to just say, "Sorry, thems the rules....no repeat judges.""

    Shouldn't be any awkward conversations since it's invite only. I've got a list of people I'm considering, and if you ain't on it, you just ain't on it. Doesn't mean you can't or won't be later...but I'm not going to be too shy about that.

  19. I don;t think anyone of the Judges would feel *slighted* at being *dropped* for a time.. or two.. or three.

    It's great to be asked.. and I would do it again in an instant... (I enjoyed it) but it is NOT an easy or an enviable position.

    Folk may *say* they wanna hear people's opinions no matter what... but it's rarely held out in the extreme.

  20. I just lost my commentary on this, so I'll do it again short and sweet.

    1 Yes
    2 Cume
    3 Spin - You can take input, but too many cooks...
    4 Yes
    Tom Giarrosso

  21. 1. No
    2. Fresh Start
    3. Spin and the Judges
    4. Yes - but not preferred